Scientists and Authority
Used with permission of the compiler.
Originally published in 2010, these quotes were compiled by Willem Vandenberg (Varnadi das), who joined ISKCON in Amsterdam in 1990. He served in the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust in Sweden as a translator and editor and as a manager of one of its sub-complexes. After officially leaving ISKCON in 2010 he went on to further his career as a computer programmer in higher education. He now lives in Texas and enjoys life reading, writing, and traveling the world.
Prabhupada in His Own Words
Scientists and Authority
What follows is an extensive list of quotes from Bhaktivedanta Swami, the founder of the Hare Krishna movement, on the topic of science. Despite the repeated claim that his own cult is scientific and his books are scholarly, the Swami had absolutely no tolerance for any kind of modern science that did not support his ideas and doctrines. Modern science and its practitioners are in general condemned as criminal, untrustworthy, and cheating. Everything presented by modern science must be questioned and scrutinized against the gold standard of Bhaktivedanta Swami’s understanding of the ancient Indian myths and legends — unless it even remotely supports it, in which case it will be instantly and blindly accepted without further question. This particular section deals with Scientists and Authority.
SB 1.9.18, purport
Therefore, authority is not dogmatic. In the Bhagavad-gita this truth is confirmed in the Fourth Chapter (Bg. 4.2), and the perfect system of learning is to receive it from authority. The very same system is accepted universally as truth, but only the false arguer speaks against it. For example, modern spacecraft fly in the sky, and when scientists say that they travel to the other side of the moon, men believe these stories blindly because they have accepted the modern scientists as authorities. The authorities speak, and the people in general believe them. But in the case of Vedic truths, they have been taught not to believe. Even if they accept them they give a different interpretation. Each and every man wants a direct perception of Vedic knowledge, but foolishly they deny it. This means that the misguided man can believe one authority, the scientist, but will reject the authority of the Vedas. The result is that people have degenerated.
SB 5.5.10-13, Vrindavana, November 1, 1976
Each and every planet is differently constructed. They do not know. These rascals, they are passing as scientists and simply giving this conclusion, that “Every planet is full of dust and rocks.” If dust and rocks, then why from the sunshine so much heat is coming, and why from the moonshine so soothing and pleasing shine is coming? These rascals, they do not know. And they are passing as scientists. I call them directly rascals, simply, set of rascals. They have never gone to the moon planet. They do not know what are the different position of the different planets. Simply they are, I mean to say, cheating people to get good salary. That’s all. And in the name of scientist.
SB 5.14.26, purport
In this material world, so-called scientists, philosophers and economists are nothing but cheaters in one way or another. The scientists are cheaters because they present so many bogus things in the name of science. They propose going to the moon, but actually they end up cheating the entire public of large sums of money for their experiments. They cannot do anything useful.
SB 8.23.29, purport
Unfortunately, there are so-called scientists who are subject to death at every moment but are trying to understand by speculation the wonderful creation of the cosmos. This is a foolish attempt. … Among the innumerable planets in only one universe, the so-called scientists cannot understand even the moon and Mars, but they try to defy the creation of the Supreme Lord and His uncommon energy. Such men have been described as crazy
Lecture, Seattle, September 30, 1968
Just like the modern scientists, they are trying to fly some space machine in the good speed so that they can go to the moon planet. So many scientists of America, Russia, and other countries, they are trying. But they cannot. Their sputnik is coming back. But just see God’s power. Millions of planets are floating just like swabs. This is greatness.
SB 7.7.19-20, Bombay, March 18, 1971
The material scientists, they have no information of atma. Therefore they think that in the moon planet there is no life, in the sun planet there is no life. Simply… This is kupa-manduka-nyaya. Dr. Frog PhD., he’s thinking in his own way. Dr. Frog thinks that this three feet dimension of the well is all in all, there cannot be anything. These rascal philosopher and rascal scientist, they think in that way, Dr. Frog. There cannot be Atlantic Ocean. That three feet dimension, well water is sufficient. Therefore we have to receive knowledge from authorities. We cannot speculate. Speculation will not help us in approaching the real destination.
SB 1.1.2, London, August 16, 1971
Just like these so-called scientists are going to the moon planet and coming back — because conditioned.
SB 1.8.39, Los Angeles, May 1, 1973
You have not created the sun, you so-called scientists. You can talk all jugglery of words only. But it is beyond your capacity to know what is the sun. It is beyond your capacity. You cannot know.
Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course, Los Angeles, May 17, 1973
Just like, say, moon planet-hopelessness. What is there? They spend so much time and money, but what is this? Hopelessness. They do not know. All scientists are working, all politicians are financing, but result is hopelessness. Is it not? Similarly, everything they are doing, but they are so rascal, they will never admit that “We are failure.” Still they will stick, “Yes, we are success… Future, in ten years we shall do it. Never mind.”
BG 1.24-25, London, July 20, 1973
So big, big scientists, expert scientists, if they can discover airplane which is running on mind speed or air speed… They are not, they cannot go by the air speed. They fly on the air, but not with the air speed.
SB 1.15.21, Los Angeles, December 1, 1973
They are going to the so-called moon planet and coming back. The first aeronautics from Russia, when he was far, far away, he was just looking after, “Where is my Moscow? Where is my Moscow?” You see. This is our intelligence. You may go far away. There is an example. Just like the vulture, they have got a very good eyesight, very good eyesight. You… Seven miles away from the surface, they can see where there is a dead corpse. So they have got good eyesight, but they are searching after dead corpse only. That is their business. These so-called scientists, philosophers, they are very much advanced, but their only business is how to become happy in this planet.
Morning Walk, Los Angeles, December 9, 1973
Just like these rascal scientists, they could not go and settle in the moon planet. Still, they are saying, “It is success. It is success.” Just see the fun. What success? You could not stay there, and what success you have got? Simply by seeing a crack? “Yes.” That’s all right, success. And people are accepting, “Oh, yes, you are successful. Now go to another planet.” These bogus things are going on
SB 1.16.19, Los Angeles, July 9, 1974
Svarupa Damodara: That there was an explosion in the (indistinct), and they could not go to the moon. So they were in danger in outer space. So they were requesting all the people so to “Pray to God so that I can come back safe and sound to this planet.” (laughter)
Prabhupada: When they are in danger they pray to God for safe and sound, but when they go to the moon planet: “We are scientist.” (laughter) Just see how much foolish they are! When they go to the moon planet, at that time, “God give us permission, we may go”? No. “We are scientists. (laughter) We don’t care for God.” But when they are in danger, “God save us.” (laughter) Just see what kind of scientists they are.
Departure Lecture, London, March 12, 1975
Just like these moon-planet-goers, they attempted many times jumping, but they could not get any shelter. They have come back again. Now they have I think left off. What is that? “Grapes are sour.” After jumping, jumping, the jackal, when he could not get the grapes, then he says that “Grapes are sour.” That is… (laughter) “No need.” So these so-called scientists, after jumping like the jackal, could not get any place in the moon planet, and they have come down again. It is not possible. You cannot go to any of the planets, although they are material. You cannot… Just like you cannot go to any country without getting the visa permit, similarly… There are many planets. They are open for your entrance, but not in that way, that by force you will go. That is not possible.
Morning Walk, Honolulu, June 2, 1975
…expedition is exposition of the scientists: useless. But these materialistic persons will be cheated again and again. Punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. The scientists will propose something else and they will accept. They will never say that “You are failure in your moon expedition. Why you are proposing again something nonsense?” They will never ask. They will pay me, “Yes.”
Morning Walk, Honolulu, June 10, 1975
So these scientists, what is their value? What they have done anything contribution to the world for the benefit of the human society? They could not give any relief from the disease, relief from old age, relief from death or birth. These are the real problems. So what is their contribution? They have given some horseless carriage. Again there is problem of power. What is actually benefit they have done, that this is the benefit from the scientists? Anything they have done, there is counter disadvantage. This is simply waste of time.
Morning Walk, Honolulu, June 16, 1975
Prabhupada: Oh. [break] …problem is, at the present moment, they have exhausted all their intellect. Now they are finding out how to bluff the people and maintain themselves. That is their problem. Yes.
Bali-mardana: Yes. The people have lost faith in the science because they have not produced anything.
Prabhupada: That is the problem. Because they have cheated people for so many years and drawn high salaries, now they are finding out: “How to cheat these rascals and continue our business?” This is the problem. Because they have nothing to research. Everything, whatever, are finished. And all failure. Simply big, big words, that’s all. Word jugglery, that’s all. They could not do anything. What exactly they have done, something which is not done by God? They competition with God, so what they have done? What is their contribution?
Bali-mardana: Only negative; nothing positive. [break] …easier to kill people.
Prabhupada: That’s it. That much they have done, yes. [break] …diverting the attention of the people from going to the moon planet, they are meeting in the sky. So what will benefit we shall derive by their meeting in the sky?
Siddha-svarupa: They have scientists now that are proposing and they have grants on how to develop a city in outer space or on the moon. They already have it how they’re going to send people, how they’re going to get their…
Prabhupada: This is another bluff. You see? And these rascals are believing them.
Siddha-svarupa: Especially they’re making, trying to make people feel that their problems will be solved, that when it gets too bad they’ll just be able to go to the moon. So there’s no real problem even if you ruin the earth because you can always escape.
Prabhupada: No, no, that mean… What about their moon planet going? That is stopped?
Siddha-svarupa: I don’t think they’re sending any more rockets to the moon.
Ambarisa: Yes, they’re finished now. There’s too much litter up there.
Prabhupada: So, useless.
Morning Walk, June 23, 1975, Los Angeles
Prabhupada: And how you can go to the moon planet? Independently, without going through the process. [break] …nineteen hundred fifty-eight, I said, “This is all childish.” So I am not a scientist. How did I say? On what standing? Indian guest: There is a difference in nomenclature. Just to resolve the conflict in my mind and (Hindi conversation).
Brahmananda: You said it was a waste of time, and now they have stopped. They are doing it.
Prabhupada: Yes. So how I predicted? I am not a scientist. How did I say it?
Bahulasva: On the strength of Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: That’s it. Vedic science.
Dharmadhyaksa: First the scientists told the political leaders that “You let us go to the moon, and we will give you all sorts of benefits.” Now they have not produced any benefits, so the political leaders won’t give them any more money.
Prabhupada: That is good. They have come to their senses. All the so-called scientists, they should be dismissed, kicked out.
Devotees: (laughter) Jaya!
Morning Walk, June 25, 1975, Los Angeles
Prabhupada: No, because they are asses. Why don’t you say like that? (laughter) Because they are big asses and people are following them. That is the misfortune. They are simply bluffing that “We are very great.” Just like these scientists, they simply bluffing that “We went to the moon planet. We are doing this, doing that,” and taking large salaries, but they are asses. And people are also asses. Therefore they accept, “Oh, he is a big man, cheating us very nicely.”
Morning Walk, Durban, October 13, 1975
Harikesa: The whole scientific craze seems to be settling down anyway. It seems to be dying down.
Prabhupada: It must die. The scientists, they admit now, “What we shall do? We have bluffed in so many ways. Now what is the next bluffing?” Their bluff, last bluffing, was going to the moon planet, and everything is failed. Then what is next bluffing? That is their problem, how to keep their big, big post?
Harikesa: There’s nothing left to do.
Prabhupada: Yes. They have finished all their theories. Still, they could not do anything. This is their position.
Morning Walk, Bombay, November 11, 1975
Harikesa: One devotee asked me, “If the scientists don’t know anything about the universe, then how is it they can predict exactly when there is going to be an eclipse of the sun or the moon for hundreds of years in advance?”
Prabhupada: That is very preliminary knowledge. That is not… Just like you can predict that after two months there will be winter. That does not mean that you are very advanced scientist. (laughter) Any child can say. The rascal predicted that there is some comet, and it never appeared. He did. So therefore they are rascals. What is already scheduled, everyone knows. He can say that
Morning Walk, November 14, 1975, Bombay
Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupada, how do we support our challenge that they have not gone to the Moon?
Devotee (3): How do we support our challenge to the scientists that they have not actually gone to the Moon?
Prabhupada: First proof is that they say that there is no life. That is foolishness. There is life. Because we find everywhere life, why not in the Moon planet? And there are many others. The first challenge is this.
Devotee (3): They say that they have not seen the life, though.
Prabhupada: But what you can see, rascal? Therefore we say you are rascals. Why do you believe your eyes? You cannot see so many things. We don’t find any living entity in the ocean. Does it mean there is no living entity? So what is the value of your seeing? That is the defect. They believe in too much their eyes. Although eyes are… Every sense is imperfect. You can see here: “Oh, we don’t find anything. It is all zero.” Does it mean the sky is zero? There are millions of planets and millions of living entities. So that is their rascaldom. They think that they are perfect. Whatever they see, that is perfect. That is their mistake. If I say, “No, there is no life. I cannot see,” is that very good statement? And in the…, externally you don’t find any living entity, but is it void of living entities? Then why shall I assert that “There is no living… I cannot see”? Is that very good proposal? Therefore they are rascals. There cannot be any place within this universe which is without life. There cannot be. We see there is life even within sand. How you can say there is no life? “Because I cannot see.” What is this argument? What you are? You are a rascal. Because you cannot see, therefore we have to accept? First of all we say you are rascal. And if he says that “I cannot see,” is it to be accepted? And the example is there. “I cannot see any life. It is simply water.” But there are millions and trillions of life, big, big fish. Where is your perfection of seeing?
Devotee (3): Prabhupada? Why are the big authorities, like the government people…?
Prabhupada: Nobody is authority. That is our first assertion. Nobody is authority. Therefore we have placed Krishna consciousness. Krishna is only authority. All rascals. That is our first assertion-(aside:) Good morning — that except Krishna there is no authority. And one who follows Krishna, he is authority.
Devotee (3): Why are the so-called scientists trying to make the common people believe that…
Prabhupada: Because they are so-called scientists. You have already explained. Why you are asking? (laughter) You have already explained, “so-called scientists.” That’s all. They are not scientists; they are so-called scientists.
Devotee (3): Why do they want to fool the people?
Prabhupada: Because you are fool. Because you are fool, therefore you become befooled. We do not become befooled by their words. You are fool; you will be befooled. If you want to remain fool, then you will be befooled. And if you become intelligent, then you will not be befooled. They can befool when there are many fools. If there is no fool they cannot befool. So you follow this?
Devotee (3): Yes.
Devotee (3): The scientists, they are also fools.
Devotee (3): The scientists are also fools.
CC, Madhya-lila 21.1-10, New York, January 3, 1976
The material scientists, they have no information. What information they have got? They cannot reach even the moon planet, what to speak of others.
Room Conversation, Auckland, New Zealand, April 27, 1976
Prabhupada: And they’re taking it, highly civilized way of life. Where you are going? You cannot go beyond this earth. You attempted so much to go to the moon planet, you failed. And where you can go, put-put-put-put? You’ll have to stay here. But that rascal does not understand. He thinks, “I am going very fast.” Where you are going? You are destined to stay here. That he does not understand. Not only this put-put motorcycle, the put-put airplane also. They’re also trying to go to this planet around, round. That sputnik, first sputnik, eighteen thousand miles, and they simply rounded over the world in one hour and twenty-five minutes. And where did you go? And when he’s tired, then come down again. They cannot understand, these so-called scientists, that we cannot go in this way. There is higher authority. Why it will allow us to go anywhere? Just like the horse running fast, but within the race course. That’s all. It cannot go beyond the race course. And similarly, however heroic expedition we may show, you are, what is called, baddha-jiva, conditioned. You cannot cross the condition, that is not possible. Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [BG 3.27]. A rascal, on account of his false prestige, he is thinking, “Oh, I am independent. I can do whatever I like.” Vimudhatma, foolish, rascal. Mudha, not. Vimudhatma, “especially the rascal, a special rascal.” Ordinary rascal is better than the special rascal. (laughs) So all these scientists, philosophers, and political leaders, they’re all special rascal, they are.
Devotee (2): Vimudha.
Prabhupada: Ordinary man, they’re simply rascal, and these rascals are special rascals.
Letter to: Purusottama, Los Angeles, June 4, 1976
What is the proof that they have gone to the moon? Why they are not now utilizing it, and they simply remain quiet? They have simply squandered so much money but there is no proof that they went. A foolish man squanders and does nothing and still we are to believe that they are scientists? According to the Bhagavad-gita, yanti deva vrta devan . . . without the necessary qualification, namely visa, etc., one cannot even go to another country what to speak of another planet, and the moon planet, Candra-loka, being a heavenly planet, how can we accept that they have gone to the moon? Our point is that they are accepting foolish men as scientists.
Morning Walk, June 4, 1976, Los Angeles
Ramesvara: They say that the atom, the little particle, is eternal, original.
Prabhupada: But you rascal, you are not coming from atom; you are coming from your father. That is my reply. You rascal, you are coming from your father, not from the atom.
Tamala Krishna: How do you say everything comes from the atom?
Ramesvara: Originally, they say…
Prabhupada: Originally, go to hell. (laughs) First of all, take your case. “Originally.” You do not know your case and you are going to originally. Hele data nakhe yuce.(?) You know this philosophy? Hele, there was some water snake, they have no poison. One snake charmer, he cannot catch even that. And he’s trying to catch cobra. So first of all answer your case, then go to “originally.”
Ramesvara: That’s what you said yesterday in discussing that philosopher Skinner. He said first we control nature, then we can control ourselves. And you replied, if you can’t control yourself, how you can control such a big thing like nature?
Prabhupada: That is the defect. They are tiny, insignificant creature and talking big, big things. This is the defect of modern civilization.
Tamala Krishna: Like a child trying to catch the Moon.
Prabhupada: He has no importance, and he’s talking big, big things. The same philosophy. Hele data bai nakhe yuce.(?) He cannot catch even nonpoisonous snake, and he’s saying, “I’ll catch up a cobra.”
Tamala Krishna: Like a small child trying to catch the Moon.
Prabhupada: Yes. (japa) All these rascals should be approached that, first, “Whether you have come from your…. Is your father monkey? You say that from monkey man has come. You have come from monkey or from your father?” Ask him this question. Naturally he will be ashamed to say “Yes, I have come from some monkey.” (laughs) Unless he is a great fool, he will not say it. Then your father comes from his father, from his father…. Where the monkey comes? Is there in the history of your family that your forefather…
Tamala Krishna: No, we are studying the bones. That’s what they say.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Tamala Krishna: We are digging up bones.
Prabhupada: That also they cannot say, because we Hindus, we burn the bones. Where you get the bones?
Tamala Krishna: No, but there’s some groups that did not do that.
Prabhupada: No, some group, not. As a general practice, all Hindus they burn, from time immemorial.
Tamala Krishna: But I mean, there are other people in other parts of the world, like in Africa, they found bones from five million years ago, and they say that it’s the missing link bones.
Prabhupada: Missing, why missing?
Tamala Krishna: Well they couldn’t figure it out until they found these bones.
Prabhupada: That means they couldn’t. Still, he says. Just see, he has brought as if he was dog, the rascal. The dog is prohibited. Man is…. [break] (walk continues on beach) …They have got?
Ramesvara: Other theories
Ramesvara: The scientists.
Prabhupada: Scientists or philosophers, their only business is to defy God. All demons.
Bali-mardana: Actually, Prabhupada, the people are turning away from the scientists now, because they have seen that their promises have not brought anything.
Prabhupada: And simply, if we can expose that they never went to the Moon planet, their life will be finished.
Devotees: Jaya, haribol!
Tamala Krishna: How can we expose that, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: To expose…. They could not answer this simple question, why Sunday first and Monday second? They could not understand, these rascals, I have asked so many. Can you answer this? Can you answer, can any of you, why Sunday first? All over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Saturday last. Why? Answer this. Is there anyone?
Hrdayananda: What is the answer, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: The answer is sun planet first, then Moon planet.
Devotees: Oh, jaya!
Prabhupada: And the sun planet is ninety-three million miles, and according to Bhagavata, the Moon is 1,600,000 miles away from sun. So I have calculated the other day that it takes ninety days, no?
Hari-sauri: No, six or seven months.
Prabhupada: Six or seven months it takes to go to the Moon planet. How they have gone in four days? They have never gone.
Devotees: Oh, jaya!
Tamala Krishna: How did you get that calculation, Srila Prabhupada?
Tamala Krishna: How did you make that calculation?
Prabhupada: Calculation, they have calculation that sun planet is ninety-three million miles from, that is, they have accepted. I also accept it. I say the Moon planet is 1,600,000 miles still further. So you cannot go to the sun planet, how can go to the Moon planet?
Candanacarya: Today is the day of scandals. These days, there are so many scandals in the United States.
Prabhupada: Ask them. If they say Moon planet is first, why not Monday first? Why Sunday first? That’s a fact. Sun planet first, then Moon, then Mars. Ravi, Soma, Mangala, Bhu. That is the calculation.
Tamala Krishna: That means that all the countries are cooperating together to cheat the people, because they’re all…
Prabhupada: No, no. They have taken from the Vedic literature.
Bali-mardana: No, they are right, Sunday, Monday.
Tamala Krishna: No, I mean to say that everyone is saying that they have gone to the Moon, that means they are all together cheating.
Radhavallabha: The scientists have got radio telescopes. They bounce the sound vibration off the planet, and depending on how long it takes the sound to come back, that’s how far away it is.
Radhavallabha: They bounce sound vibration off a planet, and depending on how long it takes the vibration to come back, that’s how far away the planet is. So they’ve calculated the sun to be further in that way.
Prabhupada: First of all, answer why Sunday first. Then talk of all nonsense.
Candanacarya: Mars is after the Moon?
Candanacarya: Mars is after the Moon?
Candanacarya: Because in French, Tuesday is the word for Mars.
Prabhupada: And Saturday is last. Saturn is last.
Yadubara: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Each planet is 1,600,000 miles away from one another.
Tamala Krishna: 1,600,000.
Yadubara: They say they went 250,000 miles twice.
Prabhupada: They say, let them say, first of all answer “Why Sunday first?”
Tamala Krishna: What about these pictures we have seen on the television showing them jumping on the Moon?
Prabhupada: That you can make in laboratory. That is not very difficult.
Tamala Krishna: Colossal hoax.
Mahendra: …pictures are like the King Kong movie.
Prabhupada: Yes. In King Kong movie they made cotton as cloud. (laughs). They can do everything in the laboratory.
Yadubara: They are making that movie again, Srila Prabhupada. Spending millions to make it again.
Prabhupada: Which movie?
Yadubara: King Kong.
Ramesvara: They have got some gigantic King Kong figure. It moves like a gigantic doll. Actually, to make a movie now they spend maybe ten, fifteen million dollars for one movie. [break]
Prabhupada: They cannot cleanse nowadays?
Hari-sauri: They made a movie called “2001,” and in that they had shots of men on different planets. It looked just like the Moon shots. It was very…, just the same.
Tamala Krishna: Prabhupada, it is very difficult to convince the people that they have not gone to the Moon. I mean, that’s a good logic, but they’ll think that’s very childish for us to say “Sunday first, Monday.”
Prabhupada: Well, let them remain as child.
Candanacarya: Srila Prabhupada once said that if the Moon is dirt and dust, how is it that it reflects the light of the sun so much that it lights up the whole planet?
Prabhupada: Yes. The common sense. They have lost their common sense.
Candanacarya: It’s so shiny that it lights up the whole earth planet at night.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Candanacarya: How can dirt reflect light like that?
Prabhupada: That was my first question.
Tamala Krishna: I think that we should write a, we should publish a little book on this, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: If you can.
Tamala Krishna: Maybe one of the scientists.
Candanacarya: There are many scientists who agree.
Prabhupada: Now our scientists are challenging, Svarupa Damodara and others.
Tamala Krishna: Yes. They could scientifically publish a book.
Candanacarya: There are scientists in England who agree that they didn’t go to the planet.
Candanacarya: There are some scientists in England who agree with you that they did not go to the Moon.
Prabhupada: Yes, they did not. Simply propaganda. (japa) [break] Freedom.
Hari-sauri: It’s just like you said in the BTG.
Prabhupada: Equal rights. The rascal father has left, and poor mother is carrying the burden.
Ramesvara: She chanted Hare Krishna just by seeing us.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. There is no other way. We are the only shelter for these forlorn women.
Tamala Krishna: We have to give them shelter.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, certainly.
Radhavallabha: Srila Prabhupada, scientists have this theory called use and disuse. They would say that these birds here that have the long beaks for eating fish, originally, they did not have that, but after many, many millions of years of trying to catch fish, gradually their beaks became longer. And they would say that would be the origin of that species.
Prabhupada: Huh? What is that?
Hrdayananda: He’s saying that because the fish are trying to catch fish, therefore…
Ramesvara: The birds are trying to catch the fish.
Hrdayananda: Therefore a beak comes out. (laughter)
Bali-mardana: No, no. That’s not the theory. The theory is that the ones with the long beaks are able to catch the fish. Therefore, the other ones die off.
Hrdayananda: Therefore they get the long beaks?
Bali-mardana: Just from mutation.
Radhavallabha: That’s not. It’s another theory.
Candanacarya: It’s another theory.
Prabhupada: Hmm? So that’s all right. If we are eager for Krishna, we shall get Krishna.
Tamala Krishna: So we agree with that theory.
Hrdayananda: It has been given by Krishna because he always wanted to catch fish.
Hari-sauri: They used to give us a simple example at school. They said that the people that lived in Mexico City…
Prabhupada: No, no, we accept that. Yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante [BG 8.6]. If, at the time of death, he thinks that “If I would have possessed a beak,” then he gets the life. That’s all. (laughter) That’s a fact.
Radhavallabha: They say that this is the way the different types of bodies come into being, that by the desire…
Prabhupada: That we say also. There is no difficulty. Because at the time of death, whatever you are thinking, you’ll get the next body. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita.
Radhavallabha: They say, though, that this is how the different bodies come into being.
Prabhupada: Yes, we say also.
Candanacarya: But can any body be generated from the imagination, any kind of…
Prabhupada: It is not this imagination. I wanted that facility. So my subtle mind is wanting that. So nature is supplying: “All right, you get it.”
Hari-sauri: We don’t create the bodies. We desire them, and the material nature has created already.
Radhavallabha: Their theory is that these bodies never before existed, but by the desire of the living entity, that certain type of body was created.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. That means nature is above. He wanted that body; nature has given. Is that correct?
Radhavallabha: No, not exactly.
Prabhupada: Then what is that?
Radhavallabha: That they want a particular facility, and…
Prabhupada: And nature supplies the body, that’s all. Simple thing.
Ramesvara: But they do not put a limit, 8,400,000. They think that it can keep going on increasing, increasing.
Prabhupada: Then let it go on. That’s all right. What is wrong?
Candanacarya: By their theory, though, a human being would be able to generate wings or a beak like a bird.
Prabhupada: Yes, there are human beings who can fly in the sky. Siddhaloka, Siddhaloka. There is a planet called Siddhaloka. There the human beings from one planet to another go.
Hari-sauri: They have wings?
Prabhupada: No wings.
Ramesvara: The Gandharvas have wings.
Candanacarya: Why do you need wings if you can fly? Also Garuda has a beak. Where are we going now?
Hari-sauri: Prabhupada said in Hawaii there’s no…. (pause)
Prabhupada: The old man, her father?
Hari-sauri: I hope so. (pause) [break]…
Prabhupada: Send to Svarupa Damodara, he has got also.
Tamala Krishna: Monday. Sunday, Monday?
Prabhupada: Yes. Days are in this order. So naturally one has to conclude that sun first, Moon second. Naturally.
Radhavallabha: They will say, “Who has set up the order?”
Prabhupada: Anyway, you accept it. All over the world, nobody says that Monday first. Then?
Candanacarya: Is this also in Sanskrit language? Sunday, Monday.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, yes. Ask all scientists this simple question. Why, all over the world, Sunday, sun first and Moon second? Why? And Saturday last. All of you could not answer this question. (devotees laugh)
Tamala Krishna: You have stumped us.
Prabhupada: (Bengali verse) Bado bado banare, bado bado peta, lanka dingahe manamara henta(?). “Big, big monkey, big, big belly. Ceylon jumping, melancholy.”
Hrdayananda: We are all big monkeys.
Candanacarya: How are they able to perpetuate such an enormous hoax?
Prabhupada: Enormous hoax for the fools, not for the intelligent persons.
Hari-sauri: They never fooled you, Srila Prabhupada.
Hari-sauri: They never fooled you. (Prabhupada laughs)
Candanacarya: That means that some people must know the actual truth about the hoax in the American system, so if we can find them…
Prabhupada: So you are knowing that. State it.
Ramesvara: In other words, is it, is it that there is deliberate trick? It is deliberate.
Prabhupada: Ahh, it may not be deliberate, but they are fools. They are talking nonsense. That’s all.
Tamala Krishna: But what about the people, like the men on the ship who say they have jumped on the Moon? Are they lying and being paid off, or are they just…. What, I mean what is the actual position? Some men are getting on a television saying, “We landed there, it was like this, it was like that.”
Prabhupada: No, I saw that television, at that time, the whole thing broke wrong. There was a press representative. He protested. I was protesting from the beginning, but they could not show how they jumped, at the last. Going, going, going, but at the time of jumping, melancholy. Ceylon jumping melancholy.
Tamala Krishna: But I mean they do, these men who are space travelers, they say “We did land on the Moon.” Now are they lying?
Prabhupada: No, they, but the television was showing. They could not show this.
Tamala Krishna: Jumping on the Moon?
Prabhupada: That was not shown.
Candanacarya: They may be hypnotized also.
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada said they’d gone to Rahu.
Ramesvara: They have got that dust. They say they got that from another planet.
Prabhupada: Dust you can take it from here, from this beach.
Ramesvara: So then they’re lying.
Tamala Krishna: That means they’re deliberately cheating, knowingly. And the government is backing them.
Prabhupada: That is your business.
Ramesvara: What is the purpose of the cheating?
Candanacarya: Prabhupada said to ask for taxes.
Prabhupada: Labha, puja, pratistha. These three things are materially wanted. Some material profit, some reputation and some…. Eh?
Prabhupada: Adoration. These are the material demands.
Hari-sauri: Because, originally, it was built up as a big thing between Russia and America, who would get to the Moon first.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now they are shaking hands, and none of them has gone. “I thank you.”
Tamala Krishna: It’s like the emperor’s new clothes.
Prabhupada: “You failed, my dear sir. I failed also. Come on.”
Tamala Krishna: There’s a story, “The Emperor’s Clothes,” “The Emperor’s New Clothes.” There were these tailors, and they made believe that they were making clothes for the emperor, but actually they were doing nothing, but they were making the motions. So they, everybody was saying what nice clothes and finally…
Candanacarya: No, they said, any intelligent, only intelligent people will see the clothes.
Hrdayananda: And someone who’s a fool, he cannot see it.
Ramesvara: Magic cloth.
Candanacarya: So they were getting much money for making nothing.
Hrdayananda: The emperor went out naked in the street, and everyone was afraid to admit that there was no clothes.
Ramesvara: Because they would be labeled fool. So finally one boy said, “But the emperor has no clothes.”
Prabhupada: Yes, there is a nice story in this connection. There was one Gopal Ban. So he was very cunning fellow. In the Muhammadan period in Bengal. So the Mohammedan Nawab asked him, “Gopal Ban, can you prepare a Mahabharata in my name?” “Oh, yes!” So, “I’ll engage so many panditas, and they will make a Mahabharata, your activities, your glories, everything. So give me one hundred thousand rupees, just begin.” He was taking money, taking money, “Yes, it is going on, going on.” “Then when it will be published?” “Yes, just last few days more. Now, sir, everything is prepared. So the one thing is, you have to give me information how many husbands you have got, your wife, huh? How many husbands your wife has got?” That is very insulting. “What, you nonsense, you take.” “No, that is the main feature of Mahabharata. Draupadi had five husbands, so how many husbands your wife has got? Tell me that.” Then, “No, no, I don’t want that. I am the only husband.” “Then how can you write Mahabharata?” (laughter) “I don’t want.” “All right. If you want Mahabharata you must tell how many your wife has got husbands.” That he cannot say. So Mahabharata finished.
Tamala Krishna: And he kept the money.
Prabhupada: Yes. That already, he took that “I have to steal to pay so much money. Give me.” That’s all right. So these are, scientists are doing like that. At the end, how many husbands your wife has got.
Tamala Krishna: Scientists are doing the same thing.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Tamala Krishna: Taking money.
Radhavallabha: They have one argument, that during solar eclipse, the Moon appears to pass in front of the sun, between the sun and the earth.
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada explains that. It is the Rahu planet.
Radhavallabha: But they are viewing the Moon. The Moon is right there, they can see it. And all of a sudden it goes in front of the sun.
Prabhupada: Huh? What is that? Moon is there, sun is there. Now which first? That is the question.
Radhavallabha: They will say that they’ve observed in their telescopes…,
Prabhupada: They’ll say…, whatever they’ll say it is all right. First of all, say why Sunday first. Then talk all nonsense. First of all, answer this. You cannot say “We believe that Sunday first.” What is the fact? Why do you bring Moon, Monday? Why not bring…?
Radhavallabha: They will say it is arbitrary order.
Radhavallabha: Then they will get back to their argument.
Prabhupada: Hare Krishna. Arbitrary order is not science. That you cannot.
Candanacarya: How can it be arbitrary if every culture in the history of the planet has accepted that order? How can it be arbitrary?
Radhavallabha: That doesn’t matter it’s not arbitrary. Do you accept?
Hrdayananda: Radhavallabha is a rascal. (laughter)
Mahendra: Thirty or forty years also, Srila Prabhupada, one man made a little plaster body of a human being, and he planted it in his back yard in England. And then he dug it up and said, “Oh, look, I’ve found the oldest man in history!” And all the scientists came and said, “Oh, yes, this is the oldest man in history.” And for twenty or thirty years many men got their Ph.D.s by writing about how this plaster was the oldest man in history.
Prabhupada: Yes, such fools are leaders.
Tamala Krishna: That is the business of dogs, digging up bones. (laughter)
Radhavallabha: Srila Prabhupada, by calculating the movements of the Moon, scientists can predict years in advance when the solar eclipse will be.
Prabhupada: That is not their invention. That is already there. (pause) (walking) We shall go further? No? (japa)
Hari-sauri: One thing is, Srila Prabhupada, if they’ve wrongly calculated the distance of the Moon, then how is it that they’re able to calculate these eclipses and whatever?
Prabhupada: That I do not know. First of all, answer this. Yes. Yes. They say the Moon planet first. I say, no, sun planet. First of all…
Trivikrama:(?) But they can see the Moon comes in front of the sun.
Candanacarya: This is some other planet.
Candanacarya: That must be some other planet.
Prabhupada: Which one?
Candanacarya: This one that comes in front of the sun.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, all over the world, they accept Sunday first.
Mahendra: All of their successes are accidental. Just like they discovered the planet called Pluto. The way it was discovered was one man recognized that there was a fluctuation in the orbit of the planet Neptune, and so he made some calculations and figured that the fluctuations were caused by another planet that must be further away than Neptune that no one has discovered yet. So he made many calculations and figured out where the planet should be, how big it should be, how much it should weigh, how far away it was. So then he told other scientists about it, and they looked in their telescopes, and sure enough, there it was. But it wasn’t as big as he said, nor was it as heavy as he said, nor was it as far away as he said, and when they rechecked the data they found that the orbit of the original planet wasn’t really wrong either. So all of his calculations were wrong, but still the planet was there. So somehow or other he stumbled upon it, but all of his calculations to find it were absolutely wrong. That’s the planet called Pluto.
Prabhupada: Recently there was an propaganda. That comet?
Tamala Krishna: Yes, it would come and destroy,
Prabhupada: There was no comet.
Tamala Krishna: They said it would destroy…
Hrdayananda: They predicted a comet that never came.
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, in the Fifth Canto you wrote that the planets are being pulled in their orbits by chariots. Just like there is a description of the sun planet, and there is very elaborate…
Prabhupada: That is movement. Now, according to their calculation, sun is fixed up, but according to our calculation it is moving. That is the difference.
Ramesvara: And it is actually being pulled by a chariot and horses.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, it is moving. Either chariot or on leg. That does not…. It is moving. Moving is the point. Either on chariot or on leg, that doesn’t matter. Sun is moving. But they say sun is fixed up.
Trivikrama: They say it’s moving, but not the way we say, around the earth.
Prabhupada: No, they do not say.
Trivikrama: They say it has its own…
Prabhupada: No, no. Sun is fixed up.
Ramesvara: It is moving by manipulation of air, just like our airplane is moving by manipulating the air.
Prabhupada: First of all, solve this question, that how…?
Radhavallabha: You had us on that one.
Radhavallabha: You got us on that one.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Tamala Krishna: He said you have caught us. We cannot give a reply.
Prabhupada: Yes, big, big belly. And what is that, Bhargava, no, what is his name? Bhagavat?
Prabhupada: He has got big belly. (laughter) And Brahmananda. Gargamuni also. Acyutananda, yes. In India?
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada?
Devotee: These karmis and their sputniks, they’re claiming they’re going to heavenly planets, all these planets all over the universe, but you tell us that they can’t actually go to these places.
Prabhupada: Yes, if you have got suitable machine you can go.
Bhudhara: Srila Prabhupada?
Bhudhara: They now say that they’re going to attempt to create a planet that has perfect air, and trees, and they’re only charging…
Prabhupada: Another bogus. Another bluff. So be satisfied with their bluffs. That’s all. (break, conversation continues in car)
Ramesvara: The sun planet is seated on a chariot, and it is pulled by horses? They take it to be mythology.
Ramesvara: They cannot imagine how horses can be flying in the sky.
Tamala Krishna: And pulling an entire planet.
Prabhupada: Because you cannot imagine it, there is no such thing? What is the value of your imagination?
Tamala Krishna: But you just said by your imagination you can grow a beak.
Prabhupada: If some horses can fly in the sky, what your imagination will check it?
Ramesvara: But they say that the planet is so heavy and so big it is not possible for a mortal…
Prabhupada: That’s all right. The planet is…. How it is floating in the air?
Ramesvara: They have an explanation for that.
Prabhupada: No. You do not know the explanation. There are so many other things. Just like we say there is ocean of milk, ocean of liquor, ocean of oil.
Ramesvara: No, all of that they take to be…
Tamala Krishna: Mythology.
Prabhupada: But why? Your imagination. You have not gone throughout the whole universe. You cannot say. You are imperfect.
Tamala Krishna: But they say neither you have gone, so how can you know…
Prabhupada: No, I have got authority, you have got no authority.
Tamala Krishna: Well, simply some story books, they say.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. Whatever it may be, I can present some literature, but you have nothing. You rascal. (laughs) Whatever it may be, I have got something, but you have nothing.
Tamala Krishna: I remember studying in college about this, that we were studying Indian art, and they showed pictures of people on other planets and all these things, the demigods, and the teacher said “These are mythologies of India.”
Ramesvara: Just like the Greek mythologies.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, we have got books, and these books are authorized, they are accepted by authorities, but what you have got?
Tamala Krishna: They have their fairy tales, they call it, imaginary tales.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, we have got something. I may believe it. That’s all. You believe your imagination, we believe this. That’s all. Finished.
Tamala Krishna: Ours are better.
Prabhupada: Your imagination is also rascaldom, and if ours, it is rascaldom, that’s all right, you are rascal, I am rascal. Why do you pose yourself you are learned?
Tamala Krishna: Yes, that’s the point.
Prabhupada: Don’t pose yourself that you are learned.
Ramesvara: They say that for thousands and thousands of years man has believed in God, and as a result…
Prabhupada: That I am speaking daily, you must believe in God, the creator.
Ramesvara: They say that before the scientific revolution…
Prabhupada: There is no scientific. It is all rascal revolution. If you cannot answer these questions that you are created by your father, so why there should be no original creator? You cannot say that you have dropped from the sky.
Tamala Krishna: No, originally, everything came, man came from the monkey, monkey came from another animal, and everything came from an atom.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. Come to practical, that you are created by your father. That you have to accept. So similarly, everything we see…. This car is created by someone. Everything we see, created. So how can you say there is no creator? Within our experience we see everything is created by someone.
Ramesvara: Creative energy is there.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, the fact is…
Prabhupada: Not impersonal, personal.
Tamala Krishna: But then who created the creator?
Prabhupada: Huh? That we shall see, but first of all you have to accept there is a creator.
Ramesvara: They will agree, some people will agree…
Prabhupada: That’s all right.
Ramesvara: …that there is energy for creating.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be.
Ramesvara: But they do not give one person the credit.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Just like this manufacturer of this car, he’s not handling this creation by his own hand. He has got money, energy. He pays the mechanical person to create, but ultimately it is Ford. Ford is not creating everything. Ford’s money, Ford’s employees, workers, they are creating, but the name is Ford. Similarly, everything is being created by God. Mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [BG 9.10]. And He has got so many working hands. That is also…. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate [CC Madhya 13.65, purport]. Multi-energies, they are doing like that…. But He is supervising, “Have you done this?” “Yes.” “That’s all. Go on.” So how can you go beyond your experience? Everything is created. A child may think, “How this car is created?” But it is, factually it is created. He cannot imagine how this nice car is created. Why child? Even elderly persons in a non-developed country, they’ll be surprised how this car is created. They cannot do it.
Tamala Krishna: No. That means they’re ignorant.
Prabhupada: That’s all. So you cannot imagine that the sky is created, this water is created, that is beyond your experience.
Tamala Krishna: Because you cannot do it, you think no one can do it.
Prabhupada: You cannot do it. But why another cannot do it? As I see, I cannot manufacture the car, but somebody else can do it. Similarly, the whole big thing, cosmic manifestation, I cannot do it, but somebody may do it.
Tamala Krishna: They are small-minded.
Ramesvara: It’s like you were saying for this philosopher, Sartre. We see our practical experience is that someone has less intelligence, someone has more intelligence. So we should understand that God means…
Prabhupada: The ultimate intelligence. That’s all.
Ramesvara: So now these governments are very rascal. They are cheating the people deliberately.
Prabhupada: Well, government means combination of cheaters like you. What do you expect more than that? If you are cheaters, then you go to the government. Someway or other get vote. Bribe or something nefarious you do and get vote, and they become cheap government man. And then do your business. Because you are cheater, you have come to the post of prestige and power. What you will do? You know simply only cheat.
Tamala Krishna: So he’ll cheat more.
Prabhupada: That’s all. You have now got the power. You cheat more.
Ramesvara: The people in America that claim that the American government is controlled by Communists. They say that these big, big bankers, the very rich, rich people, that they are actually…, their theory is Communist government, or, not Communist, dictatorship, and that they are secretly manipulating.
Prabhupada: What is their aim?
Prabhupada: Power…, anyone who has got money, he has got power. That is open secret. What is the secret? (laughs) If you have got money, you have got all power.
Ramesvara: They’re very expert in making the people think that this is democracy and that the people have power. (static)
Prabhupada: If you can purchase vote by paying money, then where is democracy?
Ramesvara: Just like one of their arguments is that these rich bankers, they can control how much money is being printed.
Prabhupada: Yes, suppose I stand for presidency, and I take money from bank and bribe and get vote.
Ramesvara: So they can actually create, by their control, a depression.
Prabhupada: Yes, money can buy. The real thing is money. That is stated in the Bhagavata. Money is the criterion in the Kali-yuga. If you have got money, then you don’t require anything; you can purchase anything.
Ramesvara: Purchase justice.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, anything. That is stated in the Bhagavata. So therefore people are trying to get money somehow or other. Then he knows, “I get all power.” The present struggle is everyone is trying to get more, more, more, more money. Because everyone knows if I get money then I…. (static) Just like the Beatles and others. Actually what they have got qualification? They have got money. (static) That’s all. What qualification? Singer. Singer, according to Vedic culture, third-class, fourth-class man.
Tamala Krishna: Sudra.
Hari-sauri: Most of these famous guys, they are all really the lowest grade people as well. Very low grade.
Prabhupada: Otherwise, this John Lennon, how he dares to photograph naked with his lover? How lowest class man he is, that he has no shame even. And he’s also big man. Press reporters go to take his opinion on certain subject matters. They do not know where I am going to take opinion. What is the value of this man? But people are after money. Why? “I have got money.” That’s all.
Devotee: They hold great sway with the general public as well.
Hari-sauri: One of the reasons why they did not want John Lennon to be allowed to stay in the United States is because they said that he had too much influence with the young people.
Prabhupada: Yes, he spoiled these. They are already spoiled, and (static) that the government has done nice thing. What is his value? But because he has got money (static) popularity, he has become big man.
Ramesvara: So there is this theory that there is a conspiracy all over the world that the rich men to control.
Prabhupada: That is, we say. If you have got money, you can make conspiracy or anything, whatever you like. Conspiracy I cannot make, I have no money, I cannot make conspiracy. But if I have got money, I can develop a conspiracy with my money. That one man asked, “Have you got any intelligence?” The man began to…. “Let me see.” “What is that?” “I am seeing my pocket.” “Why pocket?” “Intelligence means pocket.” If there is money in my pocket, then there is intelligence. Otherwise, there is no intelligence. And Canakya Pandita also said, daridra-doso guna-rasir nasi. A man may be very, very big, qualified man, but if he’s poor, everything’s finished. Daridra-doso guna-rasir nasi.
Ramesvara: So when they come to our temples and they see that the temple is very opulent, then they think we are intelligent.
Tamala Krishna: Yes, they are more and more now.
Ramesvara: The church does this.
Tamala Krishna: More and more our society is getting respect because of the big buildings.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Ramesvara: New York.
Tamala Krishna: That’s why, I think your Guru Maharaja was in favor like that.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, he said that potthor katha ke usa cane gauri ber katha sundari(?) If you remain poor, then nobody will be…
Ramesvara: And this diorama project will also give us a lot of respect.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. We have got many things, stock. We shall exhibit gradually. We have got many things in stock.
Tamala Krishna: Many new ideas.
Prabhupada: First of all, I started the book. That is, by Krishna’s grace, it is becoming successful. Then diorama. Then I shall give next idea.
Tamala Krishna: This diorama is a major idea.
Ramesvara: I brought the Time magazine people to see it. They were so impressed they wanted to come when the museum is open, to make a story.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Ramesvara: They never saw anything like it.
Prabhupada: Deal with them very nicely. We get publicity.
Ramesvara: It’s very costly.
Prabhupada: Never mind. Cost, Krishna will send money.
Tamala Krishna: This project here will cost, how much? About seventy…
Ramesvara: The actual project, without considering how much the devotees live on, forty thousand dollars.
Prabhupada: Never mind.
Ramesvara: That’s the budget for the project, not counting the devotee maintenance.
Tamala Krishna: More than that.
Prabhupada: Never mind. You can you can raise that four times price.
Tamala Krishna: So we don’t mind the cost?
Tamala Krishna: And the BBT is paying part of the…
Prabhupada: And at least, by tickets, people will pay ten dollars.
Ramesvara: Yes, that’s Bharadvaja’s idea, to tickets.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Otherwise, how we will raise the money? Book Fund cannot give.
Tamala Krishna: The Book Fund has been giving one half…
Ramesvara: But now…
Prabhupada: That can be given as loan, not for…
Tamala Krishna: As loan, the whole thing…
Ramesvara: Originally you told me wherever they go, the temple will pay fifty percent and the BBT will pay fifty percent.
Prabhupada: No, that is loan.
Tamala Krishna: It’s got to be a loan.
Prabhupada: BBT is, our policy is fifty percent for reprinting and fifty percent for temple. Nothing else.
Tamala Krishna: Strict.
Ramesvara: But that fifty percent for temple is only as loan.
Ramesvara: Except in India (laughs), then it is gift.
Tamala Krishna: Because we are rich Americans.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is contribution to your Guru Maharaja.
Tamala Krishna: Right.
Ramesvara: (laughs) Jaya.
Tamala Krishna: That is our guru-daksina.
Ramesvara: There is just one problem, Srila Prabhupada. If the temple thinks that they are going to have to pay for the entire project, it is so costly that they don’t want to pay so much. They cannot afford. That’s why you originally…
Prabhupada: If they cannot pay, we are not going to hang them. But the condition is this: They must pay.
Tamala Krishna: Maybe for those who will not pay, we could do simple ones, just with the, a…
Prabhupada: We do not say that “If you cannot pay, I will hang you.” No. “Pay, try to pay.” (static) In our Hyderabad scheme, we have taken three, four lakhs loan from you. And he has taken, Jayapataka has taken, you know? Nobody has paid me. Till now. But there is promise they will pay.
Tamala Krishna: Yes, that’s good. At least the big temples, Ramesvara, in the beginning can certainly afford it.
Ramesvara: On a long-term basis.
Tamala Krishna: No, I won’t even, for New York, I won’t even take a loan.
Prabhupada: No, we can forward loan if it is absolutely necessary.
Tamala Krishna: I won’t need it. We have the money.
Prabhupada: Oh, this side also road is becoming…
Ramesvara: All the way down from the beach to downtown Los Angeles.
Tamala Krishna: Fixing it.
Ramesvara: This is going to be one of the main streets in Los Angeles.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is.
Tamala Krishna: That’s great.
Prabhupada: (japa) (end)
Room Conversation, July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm)
Prabhupada: Such a pleasing planet, and these rascals say there is no life. The moon is described everywhere, the most pleasing planet. Actually, when there is moon in the sky, how it is pleasing. So that planet is meant for the high-class pious persons, and they get their life for ten thousands of years. They live very comfortably, drink soma-rasa. These are the descriptions we get from sastra. And these rascals say it is desert. And we have to believe them. And practically we see how pleasing it is. As soon as the moon planet is there, the whole atmosphere becomes pleasing. And it is desert. And we have to believe these rascal scientists and disregard the description of the sastra. What do you think? Is that very good intelligence?
Prabhupada: We disregard the statement of Vyasadeva, and we have to accept the statement of a rascal drunkard. (laughter) We are not so unfortunate. The unfortunate, they can believe that, we cannot believe.
Devotee (1): Now they have published pictures of Mars.
Prabhupada: Let them do that, befool others. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas [SB 7.5.31]. Because others, they are blind, this blind man, whatever he says, they believe. They will say “Perhaps ten millions of years ago there was life, perhaps.” These things are going on. But we know every planet is full of living entity. There is regular life and there are streets. The streets are paved with pearls, corals, in Svargaloka. We have got information. And what is their information? Scratching some sand and bring it, that’s all. As if sand is not available. But we give information there are planets where the pavements are with pearls. Go and bring some pearls. There is the ocean of milk. Bring some milk from there. And then we shall understand that you are making some research. Simply all over the universe dry sand? And here the population is increasing. Just see. We have to believe all this. Everything is by nature vacant and all people and animals are here. And we have to believe that. Hmm. Read it. They are exposing more and more about their nonsensical scientific inquiry.
CC, Madhya-lila 20.105, New York, July 11, 1976
Just like we sometimes challenge these big, big scientists and others, and what is our strength? I am not a scientist, but how I can challenge? The Veda gaya. We have got evidence from the Vedas. Just like so many people are thinking that the moon planet is first. We are challenging, “No, moon planet is second.” What is the strength? The strength is Vedic knowledge. We cannot accept it. So vede gaya yanhara carita. Vedic knowledge is so perfect that you can challenge so many scientists. Yes. If it is not in accordance to the Vedic knowledge, then it is… We do not accept.
CC, Madhya-lila 20.113, London, July 23, 1976
We are confident. We sometimes challenge big, big scientists. On what ground? Not whimsically, but on the ground of sastra. So we may not please everyone, but we cannot go out of this scope. We know that in the moon planet, in the Mars planet and all other planets, Jupiter and others, there are living entities, there is a predominating deity in each and every planet.
Room Conversation With French Commander, New Mayapur (French farm), August 3, 1976
But these rascals, they do not know how the laws of nature will work. They are endeavoring artificially for, foolishly, to overcome the laws of nature. This is science, rascal’s science, which is impossible, but they are trying. This is called rascaldom. Stupidity. Do the scientists not say like that? “We are trying to overcome.” Rascal, you’ll never be able to do that. But this rascaldom is going on. And they’re applauding, “Oh, very good, very good, very good.” “Oh, you are going to the moon planet.” But after all endeavor, the grapes are sour: “It is not useful.” That’s all.
SB 5.5.10-13, Vrindavana, November 1, 1976
Just as moon planet, that atmosphere is different. Otherwise how it is possible that the moon planet, it is so nice, soothing rays is coming? And why not from the sun? The sun is differently constructed, different rays. It is God’s arrangement. In daytime you require sunshine, and you become tired, so at nighttime there is very soothing moonshine. You becomes pacified, cleansed, soothing. Why the sun and the moon, if they are vacant or something, like that…? They do not know vasudhadi-bhinnam. Each and every planet is differently constructed. They do not know. These rascals, they are passing as scientists and simply giving this conclusion, that “Every planet is full of dust and rocks.” If dust and rocks, then why from the sunshine so much heat is coming, and why from the moonshine so soothing and pleasing shine is coming? These rascals, they do not know. And they are passing as scientists. I call them directly rascals, simply, set of rascals. They have never gone to the moon planet. They do not know what are the different position of the different planets. Simply they are, I mean to say, cheating people to get good salary. That’s all. And in the name of scientist.
Morning Walk and Room Conversation, Bombay, December 26, 1976
Devotee (1): I have just come from America, and at the universities, lots of times there are many questions concerning evolution and I was curious about what our position is in terms of artifacts. Bones like dinosaur bones and things like that that the scientists say they found.
Prabhupada: Scientists are rascals. Those who are following Darwin. What is their theory?
Devotee (1): They maintain that from the oceans came one-celled animals. Then from these one-celled animals, they developed into fish and then reptiles. And then these reptiles became very big dinosaurs, and they have put together many big museums. For instance, in Washington the Smithsonian Museum has many, many big bones put together and they date these millions of years ago.
Prabhupada: So we have got also the same theory. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. [break] …within water. So where is the difference? We also admit the forms of life begins from the ocean. Then plants. As soon as the water is dried, there are plants, trees. Sthavara laksa-vimsati. Sthavara means “the life which cannot move.” So the trees, plants, grass, they cannot move. Then insects, then reptiles, then birds, then beast, then human being. In this way the living entity is changing body. So what is the difficulty?
Room Conversation, Puri, January 27, 1977
Gargamuni: People are taking the authority of the scientists more than the creator.
Prabhupada: What is this scientist? The scientists are rascals. These are the proofs. They are trying to go to the moon planet, but they do not know what is this. So many stars are hanging on my head. What are they? They cannot give any perfect information. They do not know. Two things they do not know. What is the meaning of science, real two things. One thing, how life come into existence, and how this planetary system is existing. They do not know. What is value of their science? There are so many things they do not know.
Prabhupada: Practically everything. But these two we challenge. We can challenge. They know. Therefore they want to bluff. They know that it is not possible for them to know. They know it perfectly well. It is not possible for their so-called science to understand what is the situation of this planetary system and what is the origin of life. They do not know. They admit. Two things unknown. Everything is unknown, but especially these two things. Simply speculate and bluff and… Mudha. And we consider them as rascals. That’s all. By taking information from Krishna, we understand these are rascals. Duskrtino mudhah naradhamah, mayayapahrta-jnanah [BG 7.15], bas.
Gurukrpa: Asuram bhavam asritah.
Prabhupada: Therefore we say that… We say, “They are rascals,” and they say, “These are rascals, brainwashing.” This is the position.
Hari-sauri: The demons and the demigods.
Prabhupada: I say “These rascal scientists are brainwashing,” and they say, “These rascal Krishnas, they are brainwashing.” (laughs) This is the position. But so far us, we have got some support and we have got authorities, and these rascals, they have no authority. They simply speculate. So even we are rascals, they are… Among these two rascals, we are better rascal, (laughs) not they are better. That’s all.
Room Conversation, Bombay, April 13, 1977
Prabhupada: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Morarji Desai, Indira Gandhi, and… What they’ll do? Churchill and this and Napoleon, Hitler. Simply misguiding, whole history. Simply mis… They are rascals. They do not know what is what, and they lead. Gandhi… All rascals. Vivekananda and Sai Baba, this, that, so many… They should be stopped. That is real philanthropic activities. Where is…? Now we are going to show this planetarium. These rascal scientists: “All desert. All rocks and desert.” Simply this planet, for his father’s property. This is now happening. “The moon planet is a desert.” And from the desert such brilliant light is coming that is illuminating at night the whole universe. And we have to believe it because they are spoken by scientists. You see? All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, they are leading. And our determination is to stop these rascals. That is our… It is not that “Let the rascals go on with their… Let us make our salvation.” Prahlada Maharaja said, “No, no, no, I don’t want. I don’t want. If there is salvation, I must take them also.” This is Vaisnava. “I don’t want such salvation for my personal…” This is Vaisnava, para-duhkha-duhkhi. Para-duhkha-duhkhi krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye [CC Madhya 6.254]. Naturally a Vaisnava will be unhappy. Soce tato vimukha-cetasa indriyartha-maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan [SB 7.9.43]. You know this verse? So we must know that these so-called leaders… Just see. He could not do it nicely.
Tamala Krishna: Yeah.
Prabhupada: But first of all we must know also what is the position. If we also become enamored by the so-called scientists, politicians, philosophers, then we cannot preach. We must definitely be convinced that they’re all rascals. As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he’s a rascal. You must know that “I am talking with a rascal number one.” So I… He cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I know that these rascals, number fools, number one fools, they have no idea.
Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion, July 2, 1977, Vrindavana
Prabhupada: And they are going to the Moon. (devotees laugh) I… So far I remember, the Moon is also like the sun, that it is fire blazing, but it is surrounded by a cool atmosphere. Therefore it is soothing. I think there is such description.
Bhakti-prema: Srimad-Bhagavatam says the Moon is also (indistinct).
Tamala Krishna: How far do they, the scientists, say the Moon is from the earth? How long? I have a book which says it, and I’m bringing this book. It’s very… You’ll see it here.
Bhakti-prema: Twenty-four lakhs miles.
Tamala Krishna: Twenty-four lakhs miles, the scientists say?
Tamala Krishna: What do the scientists say? How…?
Prabhupada: Two lakhs.
Tamala Krishna: Two lakhs miles, 250,000 miles. So that means about, in yojanas, very little, about 25-, 30,000 yojanas.
Yasoda-nandana: They say the sun is 93,000,000 away.
Bhakti-prema: I think the difference of the (indistinct).
Tamala Krishna: They have froglike brains.
Prabhupada: That, the microscope… What is called? Telescope.
Tamala Krishna: This is the book of the rascal scientists. They describe the solar system according to their nonsense. The solar system… Gives all the calculations. They calculated how much it weighs on each planet. (laughs) They haven’t even been there. They say that each planet has moons. Says here… This is how scientific they are. “Pluto was discovered only in 1930, and as yet, little is known about this remote planet. Pluto is much smaller than Neptune and has a diameter probably about…”
Tamala Krishna: “…half the size…”
Tamala Krishna: “The orbit of Pluto is extremely elliptical, and the day is some 6,109 hours long. There is probably no atmosphere, and there are no known humans.”
Prabhupada: “Probably.” Their science is “probably.” Probably it is science; otherwise it is nonsense. (laughter)
Tamala Krishna: It says here, “The Moon is 238,860 miles from the earth. It has no atmosphere, no weather and no wind.”
Prabhupada: “Probably.” Everything “probably.”
Tamala Krishna: It says here, “There is thick dust covering and no evidence to suggest that the Moon has ever supported life.” In that newspaper article the man who is exposing them said — because they say it is covered by dust — “How is it that no dust is shown on the astronauts’ suits when they walked around?” He says, “If there’s such a thick dust, then, when the rocket landed, it would have made a pocket within that dust.” He says, “But there’s no crater around the rocket. Then how it is possible that these things are like that?” ‘Cause actually they forgot. When they were making the stage setting in Arizona, they forgot these things.
[This refers to Bill Kaysing’s Moon-hoax arguments, which are apparently readily accepted without further scrutiny as if Kaysing is some kind of guru with better credentials and qualifications than NASA and other world scientists.]
Yasoda-nandana: One argument Your Divine Grace gave in 1971 was that if they went to the Moon and they found it was rock, how do they explain the Moon is so shiny and gives such a cooling effect? They cannot explain that.
[There are very detailed explanations of why the Moon is shiny. As to the cooling effect, the Moon is mostly visible at night, when temperatures are already dropping naturally. Incidentally, the coolest nights are new Moon nights (when the Moon is not visible) and cloudless nights.]
Tamala Krishna: Look at the earth. Now, this is a real question that we still have to answer. They picture the earth round, and we say, no. Bhu-mandala is like a lotus, like this, and the earth is only one part of one island in Bhu-mandala, and it’s not, you know, it’s not round(?). It doesn’t look like that. And all the pictures they take of the earth when they go up in their satellites show round. And we’re going to tell them that it’s not. This is a very tricky question. In other words, if this is the picture of the world, like this, and we say that… If we take an airplane from here, from Los Angeles. Now, supposing we go to India, which is here. So there’s two ways to go. One way, you can go like this, and the other way, you can go like that. But if the earth is not a round globe, then how is it sometimes people go from Los Angeles via Hawaii to Japan and then India? So we can’t figure this out. We have experience, those of us who have flown, that actually the plane went from Los Angeles to Hawaii to Tokyo to Hong Kong and then to India. So it doesn’t work out in our maps so far, right? We can’t figure it out. This thing has to be very complete in its answers. Otherwise everyone will laugh at us. We can’t leave any loopholes.
Prabhupada: So are you thinking on this?
Bhakti-prema: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam… According to Srimad-Bhagavatam, it is (indistinct).
Prabhupada: Find out from our side, according to Bhagavatam.
Bhakti-prema: Scientists are lacking in the main points.
Prabhupada: Yes. They “probably,” so many theories.
Bhakti-prema: There is… Srimad-Bhagavatam gives that about Himalaya. Himalaya is 80,000 miles high, 16,000 miles wide. That means covering more than earth, more area than (indistinct).
Tamala Krishna: Then it’s not so much. In other words, the Himalaya Mountains are here, according to our, this yellow here is the Himalayas. This is a map, showing all the mountains. So according to Srimad-Bhagavatam, how long do they stretch?
Bhakti-prema: Sixteen thousand miles wide.
Tamala Krishna: So the Himalayas are 16,000 miles wide. Sixteen thousand miles is a huge area, beyond this whole area. So according to the Bhagavatam, this should be all Himalayas.
Bhakti-prema: Yes, then it is coming this side, up to Canada, all Himalayas.
Tamala Krishna: So what is the explanation?
Bhakti-prema: And bring this from there and there, there are nine islands. From each, divided one between (indistinct). They say that it’s 8,000 miles. (indistinct)
Tamala Krishna: And how high is the Himalayan Mountains?
Bhakti-prema: Eighty thousand miles.
Tamala Krishna: Ten thousand yojanas, 80,000 miles. Here it says that “The highest mountain is Mount Everest, 29,000 feet.” Not very high. That’s about six miles. And we are saying 80,000 miles. So we want to know where is that. How high is Govardhana supposed to be?
Bhakti-prema: Govardhana (indistinct). Govardhana mountain is sinking.
Bhakti-prema: Crushed by (indistinct). [break]
Tamala Krishna: So the Rand McNally’s Illustrated World Atlas, its special feature is that it gives maps describing all different subjects like language. What language is spoken throughout different places is the world is shown by map and the national areas, according to size, population, and cities, major populations, densities of population. Like China is supposed to be… China. This shows proportionately in population according to this and India, it says that it is… Everything else is very small compared to these two, India and China. Agriculture, what kind of agriculture, natural vegetation, climate… [break]
Bhakti-prema: But there was no Atlantic Ocean, Indian Oceans, no. But after that, there were sixteen thousand sons of Sagara Maharaja. Then their sacrificial hearth was stolen by Indra. So it was put somewhere in the earth folds. They began to dig the earth to find out that hearth. So they dug other oceans, (indistinct) Kapila Muni (indistinct), and it explains the curse(?) that he is the chief. And then there’s…
Tamala Krishna: It says here that “Only our knowledge of the crust of the earth is based on direct observation, but studies of paths of earthquake waves…” Then it goes… The only way they can understand is by direct observation. And that’s very limited. Says, “All the planets were probably formed at much the same time.” It doesn’t sound like they have very much knowledge, Srila Prabhupada. Everything is “probably,” “maybe.” Says that “Probably all the planets were formed at much the same time from the same great dust cloud.” After you create this planetarium, Srila Prabhupada, they’ll have to rewrite all of these books. These businesses…
Bhakti-prema: Another book has to be written. Its name should be Easy-to-Read Geography or Advanced Geography. And also about history we have to write. Your Divine Grace will write Advanced History, and there the complete lifetime of Manus and Indras should be given.
Tamala Krishna: According to the modern thinkers, any further back than about three or four thousand years ago, everyone was living in the caves. So they think that all of our books are mythology, some dreamt-up stories by some people…
Prabhupada: So how they are writing of millions of years ago?
Tamala Krishna: This is all according to their mythology.
Prabhupada: No, they are suggesting.
Tamala Krishna: And, of course, they say that there were no humans around, just dust and water and earth. There were no brains at that time.
Prabhupada: Only brains are developed now.
Tamala Krishna: Yeah, especially now, this century. Before this, everybody was unintelligent, and now man’s brain is developing to a higher and higher degree, and he can finally understand what is what. I don’t think that… Your descriptions, especially this planetarium, will at first meet with a lot of heavy reaction. It is not going to be embraced immediately very favorably. It means that everyone who calls himself a Ph.D. is a fool, that students will laugh at their teachers, if what we say is correct. There will be chaos in educational circles. (Prabhupada chuckles)
Prabhupada: All right.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. (end)
Letter to: VARIOUS, Unknown Place, Unknown Date
No. 5 to Tirthanga dasa: I do not know how these doubts have come upon you. Why bother about all these things? They are not very important. Everything is explained in Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, why you are still asking? If you believe whatever the material so-called scientists are saying, that is your business, but I do not believe any of their so-called observations in outer space by the blunt material senses can be true without any doubt. So why you doubt Vedas and not scientists. I cannot even see into the next room, how I can see anything very surely so many millions of miles distant? But if someone who has been there tells me, then I can know everything about that place. So we must have to take the authority of experienced persons to get the truth, and what experience our so-called scientists have got? Can they deliver even an ant from the miserable conditions of this spot-life, from birth, death, disease, and old age? No. They have spent simply millions of dollars to make a show of their so-called learning and the result is a handful of dust, that’s all. So we are not very much impressed by them, neither we take their version as perfect. They will say that millions of years ago the human beings were primitive hunters. But if we see Vedic language, we can understand that their thought and language and intelligence was not that of primitive men, no. If you are looking for some excuse to doubt, then maya will always provide you. So this or that you may find out something flaw if you want. But Krishna says surrender unto Me and I will give you all protection, perfect knowledge of everything. You should not go to modern scientists for perfect knowledge. They cannot supply that. Krishna will supply you. Of course, sometimes there is allegorical reference in the Vedas, just like the body is called the city of nine gates, like that, so we may sometimes misunderstand due to our imperfect reading. Even it is true that they have landed on the moon, so what is their accomplishment? If I come to Earth planet and land in the Sahara desert, then I say, “Oh, this planet is a barren desert, no one lives here?” The moon may be like that or like this, so what does that help to our Krishna consciousness movement. We have nothing to do with moon planet or this planet and that planet in Krishna consciousness. We simply want to serve to Krishna, that’s all. Do not be disturbed by these things. Simply go on with your work in positive mood. That will be best for you and for other also. After all intelligence to understand Krishna is not within the range of your material senses. You cannot make any experiments and calculations and expect to find Krishna. But if somehow or other you are fortunate enough to find out a pure devotee of the Lord, then you get opportunity to him, and as you surrender Krishna gives you the intelligence by which you may come to him, that is sure. No other process will give us any intelligence to understand things as they are, except Krishna consciousness.